car2
Buying more cars

< PRE-DRAFT+ >

We want to expand the base to enable more people for longer periods living there!

Revisions:
    20201217 start
    20210112 ping L
    20210202 chance: VW LT #2
    20210219 reorder

Ties to:
    * 🔗van-EU
    * XXX🔗caravan
    _______
    * 🔗hackbase-type4 — general patterns
    * 🔗future — is one of the strategies
    * 🔗trucko, 🔗trucko-mobile, etc — car #1
    * [...]


Table of Contents
1 WHY BUY MORE CARS?
2 *** Interesting cars
2.1 (how about just campers?)
2.2 VW LT mk1
2.3 Citroen C15D
2.4 Mercedes 4xx / 5xx / 6xx
2.5 Citroen Berlingo
2.6 Opel Combo
2.7 C15 VS Berlingo
3 *** [P] BUYING A CAR
3.1 (FOTR)
3.2 (IGOR)
3.2.1     about engine test = cold start
3.2.2     drive test: suspension / drivetrain / gears noises
3.2.3     glow plugs test (engine start: compression test)
3.2.4     oil consumption?
3.2.5     (oil leaks & gaskets)
3.3 (PAULINE)
3.3.1     * check steering rack
3.3.2     * check engine
3.3.3     * state of body:
3.3.4     * how many km ?
3.3.5     * ownership histoy
3.3.6     * pay a deposit
3.3.7     * do a legal transfer
4 *** PAST CAR HUNTS
4.1 (2019/xx) Broken down VW T3 Dokka @ Tinajo
4.2 (2018/10) pau hunts for LT in Europe
4.3 (2019/07) david+igor find LT 35 with a crane @ allegro.pl
4.4 (2020/12) Citroen C15D @ Puerto Rosario
4.5 (2021/02) VW LT 28 1980, WHITE+BROWN LINE
4.5.1     NEXT / NOW !!!
4.5.2     (L:) MONEY TRANSFER SPECIFICS ....... DONE (now - 20210206) .................. CAR SPECIFIC !:
4.5.3     [!→] (L:) Finding the correct documents needed to have a car on your name
4.6 (2021/02-03) VW LT 40 CREAM (Tenerife)
4.7 (2021/02) MERCEDES MB100D
5 *** [!→] (GENERAL CAR TIPS)
5.1 Buying in Canaries / Spain
5.2 Cross-country (EU) car import/export
5.3 [!!] conversion documents, can it be changed
6 *** CHT CAR OWNERSHIP LOGICS
6.1 #1: CHT-style economics
6.2 #2: "shared ownership" (alex)
7 *** PAD
7.1 [!M] General car tips
7.2 [!→] (L:) Money transfer options
7.2.1     (bank-to-bank)
7.2.2     cash pick up: WESTERN UNION
7.2.3     ,,, * MONEY GRAM
7.2.4     ... * REMIT
7.2.5     "STEP BY STEP": bank machine transaction multiples


WHY BUY MORE CARS?

###

1) "it's the 2 of us now, then we'll grow cause we CAN have more ppl"

2) "also, we will rent"





*** Interesting cars


(how about just campers?)

###



VW LT mk1

as → 🔗trucko




Citroen C15D

http://anarchadia.blogspot.com/2009/03/vintage-thing-no44-citroen-c15d.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQjfQR8B3x0
offroading

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycOjIdMUx-4
some nice bodywork cutting, welding + big tires haha

http://www.citroenet.org.uk/utilities/c15/c15-1.html

Check whether it has front wheel arch liners too. 

"""
I think you get what you pay for regarding the bodywork, but good for high mileage.
Do you really want that struggle with the rust though?  
I looked at them and didnt want to go back to that era of corrosion protection, although the price is tempting. 
"""
underbody rust

https://community.smallmotorhome.co.uk/forum/technical-section/ask-ant/5873-common-problems-of-age-in-c15-romas
more rust!
"""
The rust will be an ongoing task.
The doors, 
the cills,
 the engine bay bulkhead,
  the inner front wings,
   the area around where the hand brake cables enter the cab under floor,
    the rear chassis legs,
     rear cross member and 
     the outer ends of the central cross member.
"""




Mercedes 4xx / 5xx / 6xx

The 1980s ones ...



Citroen Berlingo

also found this one:
    https://www.milanuncios.com/citroen-de-segunda-mano/citroen-berlingo-376383600.htm



Opel Combo

https://es.wallapop.com/item/opel-combo-2005-562536819



C15 VS Berlingo

"""using both at my workplace I think the reliability is better on the Berlingo. the 150,000 km c15 diesel that we have has no problem with the engine on the other hand, everything else fails. As for the berlingo in 1.1l petrol, no major problem to report in 120,000km."""
    https://forum-auto.caradisiac.com/topic/391580-citroen-c-15-ou-berlingo/
    (translate from french...)










*** [P] BUYING A CAR



(FOTR)

* open engine:
    "must be normally used"

* check oil (on flat ground)

* check suspension

* check engine sound

* check all gears

* hand break check

* cold start

* check heating

* check steering

* service documentation

________________________________

* zobati jermen (correo de distribution)




(IGOR)

About Citroen C15, but general for car buying


    about engine test = cold start
These cars have bulletproof engines but people know that and sometimes they do not take a proper care of it .
Advise : start the engine cold . Listen for knocking noises from the engine . As cold push the gas pedal and look for smoke . Little black is no big deal ...a lot - no good . If smoke is blue or little blue - engine is dead . If black smoke doesn't disappear as the engine warms up (while driving) it's also not good. It should not make more smoke than your LT😉


    drive test: suspension / drivetrain / gears noises
As you drive check for noises for  the suspension and drivetrain ( gearbox/while shifting gears ). Of you hear a difference in sound while standing as you push and realise the couch pedal it's also not very good -means the couch bearing is worn down . Look close if the suspension parts housings…


    glow plugs test (engine start: compression test)
1) "standing test" = smoke test
2) hill in second gear, see the smoke
_____________
A) Open the hood before start . Put Lies behind wheel after you start engine and go back to look for smoke . Tell her to rev the engine fee times (floor the gas pedal)
Don't start without warming up the engine with the glow plugs. Warm up twice for 10 s. before this cold start ... If you don't , you will not know if the spark plugs work🙂
If after this procedure the engine will not start smoothly it means the glow plugs are shit or the engine has poor compression
B) start from second ... and floor it, and look at the exhuast


    oil consumption?
100ml / 1000km ... or double
1 L / 10.000km 
"my T3 ... 1/2L for 10.000km"

C) "check how much oil there is ... stand for 30min after you stop the engine"

D) lay under the car, take your time:
    check for the break leaks

    (oil leaks & gaskets)

"if gaskets have been changed ... it's a question which ones"
cylinder head VS cylinder head cover ... cup is sitting on the cylinder head ... but the head itself is on the block
the most important ... failure ... is between the block and the cyclinder head .. not the head and its cover
the cover you can take off in almost any car ...

"if you see no drop hanging ... but it's wet ... and dust/dirt ... it means it's wet but not a problem"
if it's only wet and dirty




(PAULINE)

General precautions when buying vans


    * check steering rack

[Steuerungszahnstange // crémaillère de direction]:
        * wears off and breaks "after ~20years"
        * was it changed ?
            a) no and is "loose":
                changer les rotules aussi + manoeuvre = >2000€ !!!
                "wenn es Spiel hat..."
            b) yes:
                proof is better : Nachweis
            _______________
            ???


    * check engine

       * cold start, look at fumes!

        * check fuel consumption

        * look at the motor

        * look at injecteurs x4:
    injectors // Einspritzdüse - Einspritzventil
            ask to see
            leaks ? undichte Stelle - lecken

        * joint de culasse... cylinder head gasket - head gasket // Zylinderkopfdichtung
            +lambert +benjo = moteur cassé
            diesel goes into oil and breaks engine
            culasse "fatiguée"
            I SEEM TO HAVE READ LOTS OF LT40 STORIES ON THIS !!!

### how does this manifest?


    * state of body:
        (carosserie // body - bodywork // Karosserie)
        * ask more about the fixes and pieces of rust // Rost
        * (when) was it last painted ???
        * take a magnet?
        * [...]


    * how many km ?

you won't be able to get a reliable / real idea about this on old cars.


    * ownership histoy

* what's the documentation with the car?
* how long did last owner keep it?
* what's the story, why are they selling?
* do you have a full service log (bills available?)


    * pay a deposit

Write it down!


    * do a legal transfer

* pay circulation tax - IN SPAIN THERE IS NONE FOR VERY OLD CARS (i think >25 years)







*** PAST CAR HUNTS



(2019/xx) Broken down VW T3 Dokka @ Tinajo


"""
Found a candidate:
    A white ~1985 Syncro (4x4) Dokka T3. ("Platform Chassis").
Is it worth betting 1000€ (500€ buy + 500€ fix + 2 months work) on the second van?

What would it be?:

    * A containerized tiny-house platform?:
        #hackinghousing

    * A distribution system:
        * food truck ?
        * "drop in" 🔗lim0 store ?
        * [...]

    * A to-distribute a copy of 🔗trucko?:
        aka "sell off" aka 🔗lim0
"""

### salvage different "types" !!!



(2018/10) pau hunts for LT in Europe

in France
:
    * LT40 4x4 - 01.1990 - 9000€
        https://www.flickr.com/photos/7249747@N04/sets/72157655048818534/
        no engine (water 5h)
        extensive detailled list of things to work on +mechanic
        <- in contact

    * LT31 - xx.1995 - ~1000€ to discuss
        https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/1599141578.htm/
        CT until june, not possible after ???
        <- contacted


in Germany
:
    * LT28 - 07.1993 - 2990€
        https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=274719478&cn=DE&isSearchRequest=true&makeModelVariant1.makeId=25200&makeModelVariant1.modelId=20&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&searchId=90b0bc05-3a59-9a00-2046-4a50e9ee0aa4
        <- just looking

    * LT45 (3,5T) - xx.1981 - 2900€
        https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/lt45-oldtimer-wohnmobil-3-5t/1101576633-216-3353
        front axle and wheels to change
        <- just looking


in Austria
:
    * LT45 - 10.1995 - 2400€
        https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/volkswagen-lt-45-diesel-blue-c137c07c-3814-993f-e053-e350040a51a8?cldtidx=16
        <- just looking



(2019/07) david+igor find LT 35 with a crane @ allegro.pl

https://allegro.pl/ogloszenie/volkswagen-lt-35-hds-8202059810
3000€ LT35
has a serviced crane !
beaten-up visual condition



(2020/12) Citroen C15D @ Puerto Rosario

http://www.citroenet.org.uk/utilities/c15/c15-360.gif

Wallapop 2020-12-17.
We saw a 500€ for a 2005 (final production year!) C15D
A TENT ON WHEELS!

https://es.wallapop.com/item/citroen-c-15-2005-450254144






(2021/02) VW LT 28 1980, WHITE+BROWN LINE


https://www.facebook.com/dani.gaston.908
THIS IS BROTHER OF RENE
our offer:
    5500€
    5000€ w/o blinds and water system



We paid a 250€ deposit on it ...
as CHT+partner ...
then didn't take it because our partner changed his mind...


    NEXT / NOW !!!

~20200203 — pre second view
* underbody pics
* check under windshield rubber for signs of paint
* what's the history?
* check document (to see km noted down)
* historic ITV slips possible?


20200206 — post, paid reserva
* call dushan, figure out how we did it last time
* ... no gastor?
* how much will i pay for this shit (rene says up to 150€, he pays if more)
* i didn't need other than my green paper, which says i have residence there
* call my old house?:
    A) no, because it can make me problems
    B) yes, maybe they will be friendly, have some mail for me
    C) → CALL AND FEEL THE VIBE


* is it illegal for me to not have a place of residence there? :
    A) nobody cares:
        https://expatriates.stackexchange.com/questions/10007/what-does-spain-do-with-the-address-on-an-nie 
    B) says you have to do it:
        """The blog by Bankia reminds us that, for example, after changing address,
        1) you have to update your Spanish ID card and change your GP, as well as cancelling all the bills from the old house and registering at the new one.
        2) It’s also necessary to inform the bank and the Directorate General of Traffic (the Spanish equivalent of the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency) of your current address."""
        https://www.idealista.com/en/news/legal-advice-spain/2018/10/04/6264-7-official-changes-you-should-make-when-you-move-house
        """
        Tax Office: It is important that the Agencia Tributaria, the Tax Agency, has your current address because that’s where they’ll send notifications to you. If you have moved to another Autonomous Community, the change is even more important
        """
    C) looks like it might be tight:
        "A member of staff at the trafico office told me it's not necessary as long as your padrón is up to date. But if you want to change it I guess go to policía nacional, they handle ID."

* find the house contract in the documents:
    (i didn't show it last time, did I?)
    (definitely did not need to show slips and almost for sure no house contract)

* [...]




    (L:) MONEY TRANSFER SPECIFICS ....... DONE (now - 20210206) .................. CAR SPECIFIC !:
    * checked the transfer options
    * made an account with Western Union
    * found a cash pickup point in Puerto
    * can transfer the 4000 all at once
    * ready to have the transfer done "in minutes" 

→ it turns out to be an 80€ fee


THEN?
A) we pay the 80, because:
    * Alex seemed very much reassured with this scenario
        (less running around)
    * else the 2 of you have to go to villaverde's ATM 4days in a row 
    * ... which cost also time and effort
    * ... and money (2-4€/withdrawal = 15-30€))
    * we are short with time if we do it like this
        ... even if the WU has a delay, 
            it will still for sure be there by the time the payment has to be done!

→ we have until 20210207 to decide cause the banks don't work on sunday anyway

B) No, we transfer to Santi
    * Spanish people can withdraw more cash at once (? or what?)

C) No, Lies calls her bank on monday to see if those regulations can be changed to a higher limit
    C1) if not we can still do the urgent WU transfer



    [!→] (L:) Finding the correct documents needed to have a car on your name

1. NIE should suffice
"""
A foreigner may buy a Spanish-registered car in Spain provided they have one of the following:

    an official residency card (Tarjeta de Residencia) or
    proof that they are a Spanish home owner (by showing title deeds) or
    documentation that proves the holder is a registered member of the local community, the certificado de empadronamiento (available from the Town Hall / Ayuntamiento) issued within the three months prior to the purchase) or
    a rental contract for a duration of minimum one year or
    an NIE/NIF number (Foreigner's Identification Number) in Spain
"""
    https://www.spainlegal.es/en/servicios/123-vehicles-ownership-in-spain

this page says you need all three of these:
    https://www.worldfirst.com/uk/blog/your-money/living-abroad/buying-a-car-in-spain/



2. Alternative options:
    * Katrien, sister of Lies?
        "she might only have a NIE number"
        "they are in the process of having their BE-registered car registered as a Spanish one,
        our question might influence that process?"
        * we might need a letter of authorization that xxx can drive / use the car
    * find out is we use D's NIE number in combination with something on their address?
        "You need an NIE and an address for the fines to be sent to. It could be a friends address in Spain."
            https://www.andalucia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39408

also: 
    "If it is still in the name of the previous owner, any person driving may need the written permission of the registered owner to be able to legally drive the car.   That is the law in Spain and not having it may be a problem in UK if stopped and ask to prove you have permission to drive the car."
        https://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-20512.aspx



* general info:
    * how to get a spanish NIE number
        * https://www.expatica.com/es/living/gov-law-admin/nie-number-in-spain-849449/
        * https://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/legal/spanish-nie-numbers/


* vocab:
    * a gestor" : "or gestoría is person who, in Spain or Mexico, deals with administrative bureaucracy on behalf of a client. In Spain they are not required to be a licensed attorney. In Spain, Gestors are listed in the Páginas Amarillas (the yellow pages) as "gestorias".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestor





(2021/02-03) VW LT 40 CREAM (Tenerife)

+gustavo
#tomerge.......... feel like i've already written this

"Mira algunos arreglos faltan en chapa. Taller me dice 600 euros. Aun no hsbia terminado el baño. Dentro los sillones se hacen 2 camas. Lunes hablamos. Saludos"

________________

https://www.milanuncios.com/caravanas-de-segunda-mano/furgon-vivienda-homologado-6-plazas-388998738.htm?stc=em-product-android-send_friend

20210313
I wanted to also ask you, thank you in advance for answers:
    * i see some plugs, does it have panels, or an electric system?
    * the water leak in the toilet wood, is it a roof or window leak? or it's from the bathroom before?
    * does water enter anywhere through the doors or windows?
    * the mechanic you mentioned, it is only cosmetic (i can fix myself, and i'm not very picky), and the paint in front ... or is it something more problematic? when was the body last repaired, did you repair it regular?
    * is the below rusty, or perfect? do you have maybe any photos?
    * does it have any other problems? :)
    * it has ITV?
Thank you very much Gustavo. I am sorry I was not responding before.


_________________________________________________





(2021/02) MERCEDES MB100D

+ another for parts 8000€

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/243638940632268/?ref=search&referral_code=undefined


<------------------- (new) PAST CAR HUNTS ↑





*** [!→] (GENERAL CAR TIPS)




Buying in Canaries / Spain

(<L)

"Broadly speaking, if you’re registered as a resident in Spain you’re entitled to buy a car. However, you need either to own a property or to be renting one for a minimum of one year."
http://www.woodstheestateagents.com/en/buying-and-owning-a-car-in-the-canary-islands.htm


"""
If you are buying a second hand car in Tenerife or any other of the Canary Islands, the most important thing you must realise is that all debts are associated to the car, not the owner (parking fines, outstanding loans, even social security, taxes, etc.) 
Therefore, the first thing you must do when buying a used car in Tenerife or any other of the Canary Islands is go to the Ministerio de Trafico (Ministry of Traffic - the Spanish equivalent of the DVLA). (...) As of June 2014, you need to book an appointment online to visit the offices. You can do that by visiting https://sedeapl.dgt.gob.es/cije_internet/faces/paginas/indexSolicitud.xhtml

You must also pay a transfer tax and an administration fee on the purchase of your second hand car which amounts to 5.5% of the value of the second hand car plus 40 euros for admin. In Spanish, this is called the Impuesto de Transmisiones. 
"""
https://www.worldfirst.com/uk/blog/your-money/living-abroad/buying-a-car-in-spain/


"""
Buyer  ORIGINALS of:
    * NIF
    * Or if non Spanish: 
        * White NIE in date plus Passport OR EU citizen certificado de registro plus passport. 
        If the address on the buyers residence documentation is not their actual address  
        OR if they only have a white non resident’s NIE document then a CURRENT certificate of empadronamiento is also required.
    * Both parties must sign a Compraventa (Bill of Sale in Spanish – this is generated by the same program as the modelo 620)  
        DO NOT enter a price – you must telephone or use the 620 programme to get the official book price confirmed.
    * Both parties sign the application to transfer and sign the authority documents to act on buyer and seller’s behalf    
    * Modelo 620, Be ready to pay the transfer tax of 5.5 % of the book value of the car or 115 euros minimum (whichever is the greater) which is submitted to the Administración Tributaria Canaria,  plus 54 euros (except mopeds €27) for Trafico fees plus gestor fees if applicable. Note transactions at Trafico are strictly by appointment only.
"""

https://theonestopproblemshop.com/car-sale-purchase-checklist/






Cross-country (EU) car import/export

important DE -> FR:

    * immatriculation temporaire: temporary license plate - registration as export // befristete Zulassung
        * https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-consommateurs/PDFs/vos_droits/vehicule/Achat_vehicules_occasion.pdf

    * VAT ??? DE = 19%, FR = 20%
        no if second hand (>6 months or >6000km)

    * necessary documents:
        * les KFZ Fahrzeugschein et Fahrzeugbrief, qui sont les volets 1 et 2 de l’équivalent de la « carte grise »
        * le contrat de vente (Kaufvertrag) et la facture dans le cas d’un achat à un professionnel (Rechnung)
        * ainsi qu’un certificat de conformité communautaire (EUBetriebserlaubnis ou COC) indispensable pour l’immatriculation en France
            * https://www.largus.fr/actualite-automobile/acheter-sa-voiture-doccasion-en-allemagne-pieges-et-avantages-5581381_p_3.html

    * Importer un véhicule d’Allemagne se déclare aux impôts
        * http://www.autoscout24.fr/themes/achat-vente/importation-exportation/importation-allemagne/

more: https://mandataire-auto.com/guide/comment-immatriculer-une-occasion-allemande/







[!!] conversion documents, can it be changed

[...]




*** CHT CAR OWNERSHIP LOGICS


#1: CHT-style economics

aka "venture commune"

governance:
    consensus

"you use it as a CHT resident"



#2: "shared ownership" (alex)

alex:
    maintenance
    conversion
d:
    owner
    and budget

"if we are 3 people, we can make better decisions, because it's not 50/50"

___________________

questions:
    1) what if 2 people want to use it at the same?:
        A) X has priority
        B) [...]

    2) how to use it
        A) using in intervals: "2 months together"
        B) using regular "every weekend"
        C) just using it sometimes, day by day
        ------------------
        D) "partner role":
            * CHT car
            * Partner 1: Lies
            * Partner 2: Alex
            The role of a partner means you reserve 2 months per year:
            * Budget for car is 6000+500/per year ... 3 years .... 8000 in 40 months = 200 per month
        * Partner means you reserve 60 days ...  400€ per year ... 3 years ... 1200€ :
            ________
            1200€
            1200€
            3000€
        * [...]

    3) each pays 1/3 and we buy it:
        * D owns owns the car:
            or we complicate ###
        * Next year, the operating costs are 600€
        * What happens, if we cannot reach you OR you don't want to pay?:
            3A) there is a process of "minimum contact", otherwise the ownership gets diluted
            3B) [...]


A: "maybe every 3 months we make a plenum"

If the car is here, how do i get here?

Everybody has the same voice.







*** PAD



[!M] General car tips

* never "wroom wroom" a cold diesel engine

* keep car in gear when standing

* keep it raised, not on tyres, if standing for longer




[!→] (L:) Money transfer options

ON SPECIFIC EXAPLE OF 2021/02 VW LT !

UPDATE:
    LOCAL DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT TRANSFERS
    THEY WILL EXPLAIN IN DETAIL HOW THEY HAD PAST PROBLEMS EVEN WITH IN-FAMILY TRANSFERS !



    (bank-to-bank)

* "Best way to transfer money from BE → ES/D == SKRILL"
    * 0 fees, "4,000 EUR =  4,000 EUR"
    * Payment happens same day, arrives up to 1 day
        https://www.monito.com/send-money/belgium/spain/eur/eur/4000
https://www.skrill.com/en/transfer-money/?utm_cam=&cHash=a99bfd10ab96287b72c5a2846ef65b48



    cash pick up: WESTERN UNION
:
    * 5000€ max
    * 20€/1000€ - transfer fee
    * delivered in minutes
    * https://www.westernunion.com/be/en/find-locations.html

    @FUERTE:
* CORREOS Y TELEGRAFOS
Calle Del Veintitres De Mayo 7
Puerto Del Rosario, Las Palmas, 35600
Agent | Closed • Until Mon 08:00
Phone:  +34-902197197

* GOMINOLAS DE
Calle Toboso 8 Bj A
Puerto Del Rosario, Las Palmas, 35600
Agent | Open • Until 23:30
Phone:  +34-828-903755


    ,,, * MONEY GRAM
    * 3000€ max
    * will be similar to western union
        ... on their websites they say something like "4€ fee" when you make a simulation
        ... but then when I did it with an actual account on WU it appeared to be waaaay more expensive
    * delivered in minutes

Calle Lepanto, 12, 35660 Corralejo, Las Palmas, Spain
open from 8am - 12am
Phone: +34928942215


    ... * REMIT
    *seemingly no max amount (?)
    +3.99€ transfer fee
    mostely delivered in minutes
    about:
        https://www.worldremit.com/en/how-it-works-cash-pickup
    start: 
        https://www.worldremit.com/en

(hmm seems not in canaries or spain at all???)


    "STEP BY STEP": bank machine transaction multiples

500€ per day !





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